The excessive banning of new players and regular players needs to stop

[JTWOLF]

This needs to stop. I've been playing this server since March 2020 and I've witnessed the unfournate dimise of this server. This server use to have an average of 20 players on during active hours of the day, now it's more like 8. I blame this mostly on the ban frenzy nature of the admins. Prehaps they get a sense of superiority from this excessive banning. But it needs to change. I've witness far too many new players scared off by asshole admins.

On DtkSource bans there are almost 30000 bans over a ten year period. This accounts to about 8.5 bans a day. That is ♥♥♥♥ing insane for a community with less than 200 members a week. I guarantee most of these bans are from Trouble in Terriost Town.

It is not wise to run a server and ban players with less then one hour of game time because of minor infractions. Far to often, I witness new players getting banned because they commit a few rdms. What's the chance any of these players are gonna ever come back when they're greeted with such hostility? Pretty low I reckon.

Sometimes members or active players of ttt also like to whinge that they've been rdmed. Even though someone just seen them kill someone or they get flipped after firing a sniper bullet and then all you hear is "that was rdm you didn't see that". I witness it all the time and experience it myself. Sometimes I walk into a room and just witness someone murder someone. Sometimes I see someone kill another person on my peripheral vision. There's always someone who whinges that it was rdm, when it wasn't. Usually the members and active users are more convincing then new players and this increases the chance of new players getting banned. This needs to stop. Unless an rdm is straight up on purpose or is so blatantly obvious that there's no way he witnessed it, then it shouldn't be enforced.

I've had two of my mates come on the server to game with me before. Both were banned within less of an hour of game play. Both of them were banned for bullshit reasons. My first friend was banned for a few close call rdms based on sound and location. They were rdms, but he only did it a couple of times and was just trying to get use to the rules. But potassium bans him with less than an hour of game time. I wish you guys kept old demos, so I could find this bullshit ban.

Another friend of mine, got banned after the zeuses became broken, after a patch. The zeuses instantly killed someone and weren't allowed to be used. My friends accidentally kills potassium ONCE with a zeus and gets an instant ban for it. See why players don't come back?

I've witnessed various admins ban new players for the smallest infactions. It's like they think it keeps the server clean. All it does is keeps new players away. Players should not be banned so frequently for minor infractions!!!!! It needs to stop. Prehaps start using the kick function more frequently then a ban. No one should be banned for minor crimes. Just because a player doesn't 100% understand all the rules, they shouldn't be banned for a few minor rdms. Especially when they're just using logic to kill a traitor and are not entirely used to all the rules. Sure, if they are on the server and are randomly killing a bunch of people for no reason, just to troll, then ban them. But most bans I've witnessed have been very uncalled for.

Also, long term bans of regular players needs to stop. One - three month bans for regular players because of minor infractions. A server that isn't gaining many new people, shouldn't be banning regulars for a long amount. I know about the ban time accumulation policy, but almost every single member has a bull shit ban. Active members shouldn't be getting banned for more then a month, actually no one should, unless they've committed a major offence.

There are so many active players and members which you can ask that have received bullshit bans. Someone commits one rdm and someone reports the demo, so they get an instant ban. Really? Wtf. Someone trolls a bit, someone makes a few mistakes and they get a ban for it wtf. Yous need to stop banning players for more then a fortnight because of minor offences. This ban time accumulation bullshit is a joke, especially when everyone on this server has bullshit bans

[[DtK] [S] Krezand]

Hi,
First off if there is anyone that feels they've been wrongfully banned they can submit a ban protest through sourcebans. dtkbans.com
contacting the SA is also something that can be done for other issues regarding the server. www.dying2kill.com.au/showgroups.php


I'm not in a position to respond to the meat of the post at this time, however if something does come up that you do not think is good for the server it should be addressed by messaging the relevant JA or the SA when it happens in a socially normal way. We should avoid proclaiming that DtK is going to be dead and telling admins that they're responsible for the death of the server/community.

[[DtK] [JA] WhatName]

As a neophyte of dtk you should know the rules and knowing the rules you should be able to tell others the rules. if you want you can have a bind that puts the dtk ttt rules link in chat so others can learn the rules aswell. If you dont want new players banned you teach them the rules and if they don't cooperate they get warned/banned, I know dtk ttt isnt like gmod ttt or other servers but that's what makes dtk ttt unique to others so well yeah as stated above if you don't want new players banned for bullshit reasons you teach them the rules. and about the long bans of regular players that is clearly justified as of you being a regular player meaning you shouldn't be trying to ♥♥♥♥ around or your reputation gets ruined and then when new players join they see the regular players being retards and playing like new players making the actual new players think its a deathmatch server getting you and the new player banned.

[[DtK] [Jedi] Ham]

This needs to stop. I've been playing this server since March 2020 and I've witnessed the unfournate dimise of this server. This server use to have an average of 20 players on during active hours of the day, now it's more like 8. I blame this mostly on the ban frenzy nature of the admins. Prehaps they get a sense of superiority from this excessive banning. But it needs to change. I've witness far too many new players scared off by asshole admins.

Do you have any proof that it's because of the admins or are you just saying it? There are a lot of reasons why the decline has happened and I can tell you at least 5 reasons before mentioning anything an Admin would be at fault for.

On DtkSource bans there are almost 30000 bans over a ten year period. This accounts to about 8.5 bans a day. That is ♥♥♥♥ing insane for a community with less than 200 members a week. I guarantee most of these bans are from Trouble in Terriost Town.

This is pointless to bring up as it doesn't take into account autobans for Hacking and Ban evasion, as well as group bans and glitch bans. You also have to remember that DtK used to have a lot more servers and they had a lot of population. TTT is responsible for a lot of bans, but many of them are 2 hour bans directed at players who think that the rules do not apply to them or refuse to learn.

It is not wise to run a server and ban players with less then one hour of game time because of minor infractions. Far to often, I witness new players getting banned because they commit a few rdms. What's the chance any of these players are gonna ever come back when they're greeted with such hostility? Pretty low I reckon.

I don't know how it is now, but in old times we used to be a lot more lenient, but when it gets to the point when as an admin you're repeatedly asking the player to sit out a round to read the rules and even having to explain it constantly, it isn't worth it. Many times the players who come on for the first time are content to just break rules, leave and then come back and do it again another day. The onus isn't on admins to be more lenient, it's on players to learn the rules.

Sometimes members or active players of ttt also like to whinge that they've been rdmed. Even though someone just seen them kill someone or they get flipped after firing a sniper bullet and then all you hear is "that was rdm you didn't see that". I witness it all the time and experience it myself. Sometimes I walk into a room and just witness someone murder someone. Sometimes I see someone kill another person on my peripheral vision. There's always someone who whinges that it was rdm, when it wasn't. Usually the members and active users are more convincing then new players and this increases the chance of new players getting banned. This needs to stop. Unless an rdm is straight up on purpose or is so blatantly obvious that there's no way he witnessed it, then it shouldn't be enforced.

A lot of times in these situations, admins can't call it unless they've seen a demo. If you feel that this sort of incident has resulted in you or someone being wrongfully punished, get a demo and review it. But I agree, too many players get butt hurt and assume that they've been RDM'd rather than just coming to terms with the fact they might be trash. But other times, people ARE actually RDMing and doing it in a grey area to get away with it.

I've had two of my mates come on the server to game with me before. Both were banned within less of an hour of game play. Both of them were banned for bullshit reasons. My first friend was banned for a few close call rdms based on sound and location. They were rdms, but he only did it a couple of times and was just trying to get use to the rules. But potassium bans him with less than an hour of game time. I wish you guys kept old demos, so I could find this bullshit ban.

If your friends broke 3 rules thats a ban. It's a 3 strike system, get over it. If you don't want your friends to get banned, then be a better friend and teach them the rules.

Another friend of mine, got banned after the zeuses became broken, after a patch. The zeuses instantly killed someone and weren't allowed to be used. My friends accidentally kills potassium ONCE with a zeus and gets an instant ban for it. See why players don't come back?

I find it hard to believe that an admin is going to straight up rage ban someone for breaking 1 rule, if you have proof though you can submit it to Cindy and it will be taken from there. I'm going to say that out of everything you've written this is the only thing I'm close to believing though lol. If anything, there may have been a blanket statement constantly being told to the server to not use the Zeuses during this period, which your friend may have ignored/not seen/not been on when it was mentioned and as such, was banned. Potassium would need to respond to this.

I've witnessed various admins ban new players for the smallest infactions. It's like they think it keeps the server clean. All it does is keeps new players away. Players should not be banned so frequently for minor infractions!!!!! It needs to stop. Prehaps start using the kick function more frequently then a ban. No one should be banned for minor crimes. Just because a player doesn't 100% understand all the rules, they shouldn't be banned for a few minor rdms. Especially when they're just using logic to kill a traitor and are not entirely used to all the rules. Sure, if they are on the server and are randomly killing a bunch of people for no reason, just to troll, then ban them. But most bans I've witnessed have been very uncalled for.

Again, 3 strike system but admins are usually more lenient on new players. It isn't the admins responsibility to allow players to keep breaking the rules when they won't learn, it's the players responsibility to learn. If a player breaks the rule but then asks why and acknowledges they're in the wrong and slays, then thats fine. If they refuse to believe they're in the wrong because they don't understand the rules despite being asked to read them and being taught by other players/admins then they have earned the right to be banned.

Also, long term bans of regular players needs to stop. One - three month bans for regular players because of minor infractions. A server that isn't gaining many new people, shouldn't be banning regulars for a long amount. I know about the ban time accumulation policy, but almost every single member has a bull shit ban. Active members shouldn't be getting banned for more then a month, actually no one should, unless they've committed a major offence.

Bans aren't case by case. This is just stupid. Bans accumulate and the lengths compound. If you're banned for a month for Racism and Mass RDM, you deserve to be banned for 3 months next time even if it's just for Door Spamming or 1 RDM. If you're getting to the point where you're copping a 3 month ban, that is definitely a you problem and you might want to look inward and evaluate your choices because being banned for 3 months off a community server is just tragically sad.

There are so many active players and members which you can ask that have received bullshit bans. Someone commits one rdm and someone reports the demo, so they get an instant ban. Really? Wtf. Someone trolls a bit, someone makes a few mistakes and they get a ban for it wtf. Yous need to stop banning players for more then a fortnight because of minor offences. This ban time accumulation bullshit is a joke, especially when everyone on this server has bullshit bans

Another retarded point, demo reviews are there so players can be punished for lying/trying to get away with rule breaking when admins aren't on. If you think it's ok to RDM while no admins are on and only to get a slap on the wrist afterwards, then you really aren't fit for this community. An RDM is an RDM and it's made all the more worse when there's nobody on to enforce against it happening. Demo bans are there to deter you from breaking the rules when no admins are there, if you think it should be ok then I really don't think you're a good fit for the community mate.

[[DtK] [JA] PotassiumK]

This whole post seems stupid to me, you say you have been playing since march this year, for this whole time you haven't once brought this up to an admin. Then your friends "Falsely get banned" and you or them still don't say anything, then the instant that you get banned you have a major problem with the system and think that it is stupid?

To get so angry at admins and start abusing them and blaming them for a sever not having players on, when they spend their time voluntarily helping to enforce the rules and make sure the game is played how its meant to be, is quite frankly sad.

Sometimes members or active players of ttt also like to whinge that they've been rdmed.

Admins will not punish a player without knowing what happened first, before warning or banning a player we will always ask what happened and why a player damaged / killed another. If the player chooses not to respond or doesn't hear we will ask them again and sometimes multiple times more. If the player continues to not respond we have no choice but to assume it was rdm and punish them.

Both of them were banned for bullshit reasons

Such as breaking the rules?

Throughout your whole argument you have demonstrated that you have no idea how we are supposed to admin and to accuse people, such as myself, of banning people just because I was rdmed then your entirely wrong. I am almost always more lenient with punishment of rdm if it was on me rather than an ordinary community member. So to just throw that accusation out and drag my name through the mud when you don't even know the reasoning behind the ban or the ban system is purely moronic.

Also, long term bans of regular players needs to stop. One - three month bans for regular players because of minor infractions.

The severity of rule breaking doesn't really matter, admins have been instructed to follow the ban pattern of 2hrs -> 12hrs -> 1day -> double last ban, If players refuse to learn / follow the rules by the time they are up to a three month ban they probably deserve the ban. If you have a problem with this ban system you can take it up with staff and stop abusing admins about it since it isn't our decision.

At the end of the day you can blame admins all you want, but before you go flaming and abusing us maybe consider situations from our point of view? If we have told someone to read the rules and have verbally warned and slayed them multiple times and they continue to break the rules then we have no choice but to punish them because they are ruining so many other players experiences on the server. Just imagine what the server would be like if admins didn't discipline / ban players that consistently broke rules?

[[DtK] [Jedi] Cindy]

Feel free to pm me via discord. Thanks.

[[DtK] [T] quez]

I'd rather have a server with the admins that we have now rather than a server with no admins.

[[DtK] [T] LordGebus]

I will be very honest with you buddy, I skimmed through the first few lines and I must say, boy am I glad that many of those bans happen. I would argue that banning rule breakers saves our servers rather than killing it, especially in TTT. I highly doubt the TTT player base would even exist if there was an endless cycle of new players coming through giving minimal shit about rules and constantly breaking them. When I talk about the player base, I refer to the regulars. The whole point of admins is to teach new players how to play, so that our player base can grow and to swiftly ban the many hundreds that come through and are just there to ♥♥♥♥ around. Given that I barely read much of your post, I hope that I made valuable contribution to this conversation, I would not know though, too lazy to read, I am on holidays.

[JTWOLF]

Do you have any proof that it's because of the admins or are you just saying it? There are a lot of reasons why the decline has happened and I can tell you at least 5 reasons before mentioning anything an Admin would be at fault for.

The admins banning new players stops them from ever coming back. No one wants to rejoin a server when they've been banned with less then half an hour of game player. I've seen regulars banned before for a long time, only to never come back.

This is pointless to bring up as it doesn't take into account autobahns for Hacking and Ban evasion, as well as group bans and glitch bans. You also have to remember that DtK used to have a lot more servers and they had a lot of population. TTT is responsible for a lot of bans, but many of them are 2-hour bans directed at players who think that the rules do not apply to them or refuse to learn.
Hacking & Ban evasion bans are obviously justified. Most of the 2-hour bans I've seen have been giving for very minor reasons. I've witnessed it plenty of times. DtK used to have a lot more servers and a lot more population? So I'm right, the server is dying.


Many times the players who come on for the first time are content to just break rules, leave and then come back and do it again another day.

That's only a small percentage of new players who do that. Players who are trying to learn the rules and make a few minor errors get banned all the time.

A lot of times in these situations, admins can't call it unless they've seen a demo. If you feel that this sort of incident has resulted in you or someone being wrongfully punished, get a demo and review it. But I agree, too many players get butt hurt and assume that they've been RDM'd rather than just coming to terms with the fact they might be trash. But other times, people ARE actually RDMing and doing it in a grey area to get away with it.

Yes, well it shouldn't be punishable if there's no proof. Older players are more convincing then new players. I've witnessed new players get falsely accused of rdm all the time and the admin often takes the regulars word for it. Which causes people to get falsely warned

If your friends broke 3 rules thats a ban. It's a 3 strike system, get over it. If you don't want your friends to get banned, then be a better friend and teach them the rules.

I wish I could find the demo. It was on Subway and my friend killed one traitor who killed someone down the main stairs at the start. It was obvious this guy was a traitor. But based on the server rules, it was rdm, as he didn't actually see it, but he was right there. So it can be confusing to new players and theres always gotta be someone that has a go. My mate didn't break 3 rules, he got an instant ban for a few minor rdms when he was just getting used to playing.

Again, 3 strike system but admins are usually more lenient on new players. It isn't the admins responsibility to allow players to keep breaking the rules when they won't learn, it's the players responsibility to learn. If a player breaks the rule but then asks why and acknowledges they're in the wrong and slays, then thats fine. If they refuse to believe they're in the wrong because they don't understand the rules despite being asked to read them and being taught by other players/admins then they have earned the right to be banned.

"but admins are usually more lenient on new players" lies. cough cough acid

Bans aren't case by case. This is just stupid. Bans accumulate and the lengths compound. If you're banned for a month for Racism and Mass RDM, you deserve to be banned for 3 months next time even if it's just for Door Spamming or 1 RDM. If you're getting to the point where you're copping a 3 month ban, that is definitely a you problem and you might want to look inward and evaluate your choices because being banned for 3 months off a community server is just tragically sad.

Yeah sure, you should be banned for racism and mass rdming. But almost all the regulars have at least 1 or 2 bullshit bans. I hear it all the time. There are always people on the servers complaining about their bans & complaining about the admins. Yeah, that is sad getting a 3-month ban. Pretty sure there are a few players that have recently got back from bans that extended a month. A few of them seemed to have been for bullshit reasons as well.

The ban time accumulation really needs to change. Regulars shouldn't be getting banned for more than a month unless they've done something serious. Which most of the time they haven't.

This whole post seems stupid to me, you say you have been playing since march this year, for this whole time you haven't once brought this up to an admin. Then your friends "Falsely get banned" and you or them still don't say anything, then the instant that you get banned you have a major problem with the system and think that it is stupid?

Yes, I am bringing it up now. Maybe I should have brought it up earlier, my bad. I've had 5 bans and the last two were justified and I'm not going to argue that. I was doing stupid shit. But my first two bans were bullshit. My 3rd ban was a mistake and the admin apologised for it, so technically I've only had 4 bans. But my first ban I had been playing for like 2 hours and had made a few minor errors and a few rdms on known traitors based off location. Which was my mistake, but banning new players like this stops them from ever coming back. My 2nd ban was also bullshit as well, killed one afker and got an instant ban for it. Wtf? Pretty sure it wasn't by a ttt admin, but still wtf?

To get so angry at admins and start abusing them and blaming them for a sever not having players on, when they spend their time voluntarily helping to enforce the rules and make sure the game is played how its meant to be, is quite frankly sad.

I'm not angry and giving critisim isn't abuse. Sure I hassled acid a bit, but abuse is "treat with cruelty or violence" which I didn't do to the Admins.

Admins will not punish a player without knowing what happened first, before warning or banning a player we will always ask what happened and why a player damaged / killed another. If the player chooses not to respond or doesn't hear we will ask them again and sometimes multiple times more. If the player continues to not respond we have no choice but to assume it was rdm and punish them.

lies

The severity of rule breaking doesn't really matter, admins have been instructed to follow the ban pattern of 2hrs -> 12hrs -> 1day -> double last ban, If players refuse to learn / follow the rules by the time they are up to a three month ban they probably deserve the ban. If you have a problem with this ban system you can take it up with staff and stop abusing admins about it since it isn't our decision.

Not abusing and yip I do have a problem with it.


Not even going to reply to all of that potassium, because a lot of what you say is bullshit and one sided anyway.

[[DtK] [Jedi] Ham]

"My mate didn't break 3 rules, he got an instant ban for a few minor rdms when he was just getting used to playing."

close the thread lol this dude is trolling.

edit// all of your responses are cherry picked and poorly thought out, just stop dude.

[JTWOLF]

"My mate didn't break 3 rules, he got an instant ban for a few minor rdms when he was just getting used to playing."

close the thread lol this dude is trolling.

not at all

[[DtK] [S] Krezand]

This is more argumentative than it is proper discussion. (ironic coming from me)
Shoot a message to cindy, the admins are always open to making any necessary changes to the server
or if need be, shoot me a message or other [S]taff